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Men Who Claim Feminism, But October 23, 2006

Posted by angryscientist in Feminism, Uncategorized.

I posted the following over at Alas, a Blog. The thread had apparently died out, after the pro-Alas clique seemed to chase away the protestors. 


Maybe as a virtually unknown new blogger I shouldn’t care about this odd bailout, since I don’t depend on writing for my living, would’ve starved long ago if I dared, almost did just that when young and reckless, but that’s another story. What makes me care is what transpired concerning this allegedly representative of feminist blogs behind the backs of several really pissed off women who posted here. Ampersand, it makes me think your idea of feminism makes you feel independent of what women feel about your actions, as I observed on my blog about Hugh Hefner, also a man claiming feminist leanings while profiting on this peculiarity of our culture, using women sexually for money.

I found some odd reversals reading this thread, particularly in responses to radfems and to John. If this is porn funding feminist discussion, why are many of the feminist posters jumping ship, breaking longstanding blog links? Offended is putting it mildly. They are furious, and in my view, rightly so. My view may not count for anything, as a male outsider, but I have to agree with John that this makes men who fight sexism look bad, or at least less credible. It reflects badly on men who make an effort to support the cause. It puts in question whether any man can be trusted as a reliable ally of feminism. This makes it my business, so I am here to register my protest. If you censor me, it will be on my blog, with a protest of that tactic tacked on. I’d hope you aren’t heavily censoring this thread, though I’m sure you hoped it’d die off already.

Why did you do it, really? None of anybody’s business, seems to have been your attitude, though you profess regret now. Kinda late, better late than never? Yeah, well, maybe you are sincere, maybe not. Obviously you have to maintain that you are. It just strains credulity, if you look at it from my point of view. Here you are in money trouble. Who bails you out? Would you accept a bailout from a child pornographer? Oh wait, I guess you did. What goes on here? Does informed consent mean anything to you, or your loyal defenders? You didn’t think women posting here deserved to know until how long after it was a done deal, then were busted, then buried a cursory announcement by disallowing comments, then finally a man convinced you to open a thread for comments. Did I get the timetable wrong? Maybe you think women in the industry know what they’re getting into. My info says, most want to get out, feel trapped. Sounds like they didn’t know. Do you care, Amp? I don’t get it. People say this is a feminist blog being supported by porn? Fun feminist blog, maybe, the kind that think women in sex work gave consent, so no problem, right? Did they understand what they were getting into? I think that is a big issue you ought to face. Sounds like, this is a blog discussing feminism while supporting porn. You may have a legal right to sell your blog to anyone you wish, but hardly a moral high ground. No, I wouldn’t go so far as it say such a blog is a complete oxymoron, not really for me to judge, but that depends on how far it degenerates. This thread is a bad sign.

Maybe the porn merchant hosting this blog is not hocking (sic) the worst of porn, but where do you draw the line? This is not rocket science. This is not erotic art this guy is selling. I don’t know what he is selling, because I’m not buying, but I can tell that much. If this is some kind of speech, it’s hate speech, saying women are sex objects for sale to gratify male lust. I think you could get out of this deal if you really want to. That might go a long way to convince your old friends you regret the mistake. I get the impression some are unconvinced, and likely to remain so, since you want to drop the subject as settled, over, nothing anyone can do about it now. If so, that may well be true, but the boycott may spread until it chokes you. The fate of one who gets a reputation as phony is rarely pretty. I got the impression some women feel scammed, while others expected you sooner or later to betray your real colors. You didn’t do yourself any favor by accepting this deal or by being devious about it, unless you really don’t care that women feel betrayed. Then, hey, no skin off your back, but you don’t want women to think you are that indifferent to the issues they are raising. What a trap you dug for yourself. I almost feel sorry for you, guy, but I’d never trust you, so I don’t. Another man betrays feminism for whatever reason, yawn, what else is new? Maybe this shouldn’t be a big deal for feminists, just like when the antiwar group Not in Our Name welcomed support from Mr. Progressive Larry Flynt? Thanks a lot, alleged ally. You are no ally of mine. I’ll answer if someone responds, but otherwise I’m an outsider, so I’ll leave you alone, except perhaps to raise some more hell on my blog. 

 Note: There has been one comment so far since my post yesterday afternoon, very sarcastic and evasive. I tried to respond, but I think amptoons is still having technical difficulties with responses. I had to correct her implications of my implications, also my misuse of the word hocking, meaning to say not hawking the worst of porn. If my response is caught in the vortex of tech failure I’ll try posting it later.

 Another note: The tech problem is apparently history. It appears I may have misconstrued the meaning of teen sensation. The review doesn’t say, but it may be this young woman is of age. I thought I remembered reading she was 17, but don’t recall where. So the new owner of Amptoons may not be promoting child porn. Does anyone who knows porn lingo know if teenage sensation is equivalent to barely legal? I had to acknowledge the probable error at Amp’s blog, but also said this has little bearing on my argument, as a matter of principle.


1. angryscientist - October 23, 2006

I still haven’t been able to post my comment. I never get to the waiting for moderation screen. I had a different problem with the first comment. I wouldn’t ordinarily do this, but due to technical difficulties over there, I’ll post here the response to my comment, and my response to that which I’ll try posting over there later. If anyone wants to respond here instead, no problem.

ms_xeno Writes:

October 22nd, 2006 at 6:38 pm
Hey, AS, you could have saved yourself and the rest of us a lot of time by just putting in a plug for your space, with something pithy like, “Hey, I’m a real feminist man who’ll never sell you out, Sisters.” Instead of recapping a bunch of stuff that everyone already knows, darkly insinuating –based on what ?– that you will be censored, and implying that this is due in part to the fact that Amp tried to make a full-time living as a blogger– which he has never done or claimed to do, so far as I know. Brilliant. I’ll be headed over to your space, pronto, since you are moral enough to give pron a boost just long enough to toot your own horn;Yeah, I can just smell the purity radiating from every pore. Where have you been all my life, Brother ?

My response will be, when the vacationing Amp fixes the technical problem and gets to moderating whatever posts may have backed up:

Hey, ms_xeno, if you are going to accuse me of distorted implications, perhaps you should refrain from making such about me. I know Amp is a cartoonist as well, and also that he was part of a larger household with trouble paying the bills. Maybe he could have managed it on his own. Who ever said Amp tried to make a full-time living as a blogger? I just said I wasn’t in any position to sell my writing, so I’m not in his shoes. That is beside the point, which is what I expected of any response from his side. You might call that bit of political posturing pithy, but I couldn’t make such claims as being a real feminist man, because that isn’t mine to define. I can say I fight sexism. I can say I have a free unknown blog of no financial value to anyone, so no analogy would cross my mind. I have kept my heretical observations to myself forever, but a certain man caused me to defy my fears by getting the goods on the military and trying to publicize it. So I decided to hell with consequences, I was going to say what I perceived. When I make mistakes, I have to learn from them.

Speaking of which, I misused the word hocking. I meant to say hawking. I have this image in my mind of Amp hocking his blog to pron. I don’t get why amptoons is so concerned about showing up in searches for pron. Kinda late to worry about that now with that conflict of interest in the picture, not because of anything I said. However, point taken, I’ll avoid that spelling. Anyone coming to my blog for pron will find nothing they were looking for, perhaps a challenge if they bother to read. Also, since Amp had the honor to post this, as well as many other angry protests, I probably should not have expected to be censored. I have reason to believe he picked and chose. As I said to my first hostile commenter, I am above all a truth-seeker. I give credit where it is due, even when it might seem to contradict my point.

2. angryscientist - October 24, 2006

Looks like the comment problem depends on the thread. Amp has a thread about the problem which was updated to say he thinks it is fixed. I had more trouble posting my comment, but after several attempts, the last try went through without any sign of trouble. By this time there was another similar, but longer and less subtle comment calling me disingenuine (I think Kim meant disingenuous) and a sycophant.

3. Alas, an Eruption « Creative Destruction - October 24, 2006

[…] http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2006/10/08/alas-a-blog-reviews-hardcore-pornography-websites-did-everybody-but-me-already-know-this/#comment-3416 http://sourduck.blogspot.com/2006/10/alas-porn-site.html http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2006/10/08/the-revolution-will-be-commodified-alternatives-to-selling-feminist-websites-and-blogs-to-the-man/ http://hugoboy.typepad.com/hugo_schwyzer/2006/10/ampersand_male_.html http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=411 http://www.reclusiveleftist.com/?p=412 http://laurelin.wordpress.com/2006/10/10/alas-a-sell-out/ http://viv.id.au/blog/?p=88 http://angryforareason.blogspot.com/2006/10/no-really-im-feminist.html http://sparklematrix.wordpress.com/2006/10/09/alas-a-blog-sold-out-to-pimp-my-ride/ http://ginmar.livejournal.com/909066.html http://witchywoo.wordpress.com/2006/10/10/fuckery-and-betrayal/ http://rocr.xepher.net/weblog/archives/001793.html http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2006/10/12/pimp-my-domain-for-dummies-not-mysterious/ http://fauxrealtho.com/2006/10/10/um-yeah/ http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2006/10/11/bad-ideas/ http://community.livejournal.com/mf_unicorns/7838.html http://incurable-hippie.blogspot.com/2006/10/alas-bastard.html http://community.livejournal.com/mf_unicorns/8004.html http://www.slanttruth.com/2006/10/11/confused/ http://community.livejournal.com/mf_unicorns/8258.html http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/42929/ http://danaseilhan.livejournal.com/98287.html http://melancholicfeminista.blogspot.com/2006/10/new-feminist-blogosphere-blowup-porn.html http://benmetcalfe.com/blog/index.php/2006/10/13/the-fascinating-tale-of-pro-feminist-male-blogger-and-the-porno-sell-out/ http://blog.shrub.com/archives/tekanji/2006-10-13_426 http://www.feminish.net/2006/10/13/another-world-is-possible/ http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2006/10/13/amp-gate-epilogue/ http://angryandqueer.wordpress.com/2006/10/13/turned-out-to-be-a-unicorn-after-all/ http://castironbalcony.media2.org/?p=268 http://just.shelleypowers.com/diversity/just-walk-away/ http://forfuckssakes.blogspot.com/2006/10/amp-got-hit-by-feminist-police.html http://www.reappropriate.com/?p=24 http://rocr.xepher.net/weblog/archives/001817.html http://www.melted-dreams.net/definition/2006/10/12/this-whole-alas-drama-thing/ http://faultline.org/index.php/site/comments/on_blog_policy/ http://pandagon.net/2006/10/11/fuck-ritual-condemnation-but-love-this-post/ http://mindthegapcardiff.blogspot.com/2006/10/alas-fall.html http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=224 http://feet2thefire.blogspot.com/2006/10/on-with-ritual-condemnation-i-dont.html http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/10/13/bought-and-sold/ http://just.shelleypowers.com/diversity/this-is-not-a-feminist-weblog/ http://catallarchy.net/blog/archives/2006/10/12/how-not-to-sell-out/ http://www.juliansanchez.com/notes/archives/2006/10/does_the_left_hand_know_what_t.php http://www.comicsreporter.com/index.php/site/amptoonscom_ownership_and_site_traffic/ http://www.crescatsententia.org/archives/2006/10/12/#006792 http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2006/10/14/ampgate-reprise-the-good-the-funny-the-real/ http://womensspace.wordpress.com/2006/10/14/pimp-my-domain-for-dummies-experts-weigh-in/ http://happyfeminist.typepad.com/happyfeminist/2006/10/i_dont_have_tim.html http://thurgood.blogspot.com/2006_10_01_thurgood_archive.html#116058827972363318 http://forfuckssakes.blogspot.com/2006/10/radfem-love-for-yours-truly.html http://forfuckssakes.blogspot.com/2006/10/if-this-is-radfeminism-i-want-no-part.html http://www.thefword.org.uk/blog/2006/october#000493 http://irrationalpoint.blogspot.com/2006/10/and-this-will-be-my-only-word-on.html http://wampum.wabanaki.net/vault/2006/10/003130.html http://www.thewebcomiclist.com/news/985/more-on-barry-deutsch039s-sale-of-his-url-to-search-engine-optimization-company http://www.culturekitchen.com/liza/blog/alas_a_blog_and_good_feminist_business_practices http://comixpedia.com/more_on_barry_deutschs_sale_of_his_url_to_search_engine_optimization_company http://hugoboy.typepad.com/hugo_schwyzer/2006/10/amp_thinks_i_hu.html http://redgarterclubwebsite.com/SmackChron_Blog/2006/10/18/intermission-special-the-alas-a-porn-portal-controversy/ http://redgarterclubwebsite.com/SmackChron_Blog/2006/10/18/the-alas-a-porn-portal-controversy-a-bibliography/ http://myamusementpark.blogspot.com/2006/10/its-official-im-not-feminist.html http://elayneriggs.blogspot.com/2006/10/major-mega-meta-post-as.html http://renegadeevolution.blogspot.com/2006/10/i-love-smell-of-dissent-on-monday.html https://angryscientist.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/men-who-claim-feminism-but/ […]

4. angryscientist - October 26, 2006

There have been several more posts on that thread, one yelling for the thread to die, one man trying to get me to discuss issues related to ideological purity, which I see as a straw man in this context, others having nothing at all to do with me. Ms. Xeno is better known as Alsis, one of the more prolific posters on the defunct Ms. boards. I used to lurk there enough so I should’ve recognized her. She puzzles me. It’s hard for me to understand how she picks her friends and enemies, especially the radfems she likes to accuse of ideological purity. I’ve also lurked among them, enough to wonder what she’s talking about. I suspect it has something to do with battles over transsexuality, but I don’t claim to understand feminist battles. Alsis and I have a major personality clash, since she’s a natural writer and I seem a plodding sanctimonious fool to her. She’s too clever, so her criticisms are hard for me to get mad about, even though I feel some of her attacks are misguided. I don’t know how to explain it, but she has a sharp, witty way with words I can appreciate, regardless of whether I like what she’s saying.

5. Johanna - May 21, 2007

*pokes AngryScientist with a stick*. Are you dead? *pokes again*

You are of the male persuasion? Wow. And a feministy-scientist type male person, even. We need more of those. I’ll even apologise for being an ass way back when. But it’s conditional.

You have to post something scientisty. *poke, poke*. Come’on, ya know ya want to. What are you working on? You pesky science types are always working on something interesting, fess up.

Oh, wit is nice, but if there’s no substance then forget it. A poorly worded brainiac is better than a witty twit any day. (Clueless about this Alsis person, NOT referring to her!) Also really would prefer if people would stop guest-blogging at Amps – why should you do his work for him? He’s the one who gets pimp money.

*one last poke* wheeee!

Take care

One last thing. If someone is picking friends and enemies according to some mysterious algorithm, then maybe they are NOT putting substance first, eh? Sounds like shiney-shiney kindergarten.

6. angryscientist - May 24, 2007

I don’t know why, but Akismet buried your comment in the sea of porn spam! Sorry about that! I don’t bother to fish through the spam that often, so I didn’t know you had commented again. WordPress sends an e-mail when I get a comment, but not if Akismet snags it.

I am working on something interesting, at least to me, but it isn’t ready to see the light of day, sorry. I was not a guest blogger at Alas. I think nobody there had any idea who I was, and I hardly got a warm welcome. I posted on that one entry (and another about technical difficulties he was having with comments) because Amp gives male defenders of feminism a bad name, which pisses me off big time. It wouldn’t matter if he weren’t kind of a big shot. After all, phony male feminists are a dime a dozen. Look at Warren Farrell, author of The Liberated Man, once considered a decent feminist, but turned into a typical men’s rights activist.

I think how Alsis picks her friends and enemies is only mysterious to me. I’m just a guy, I don’t get why women who seem like they should be on the same side have to pick so many fights. I know most men do whatever they can to keep women divided and conquered, even if they claim to be feminists. Ampersand is a classic example. Alsis confessed to being torn about Amp, having known him from school.

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